00:00:00:00 - 00:00:16:11

So there's sourcing as picking and then there's closing, which is the thing that really fires up at least that he committed treason. And this is like it's like the salesmanship. It's where the sales come. So which is okay, you can be the best sorcerer and the best picker, but it doesn't matter if the founder doesn't take your money.

00:00:16:13 - 00:00:42:17

The deals that that fund tends to want to invest in are highly contested deals. Other funds also want to invest in those companies, and a founder is only going to give up so much ownership. And so there is this is true competition and sales playbooks come out. And it's a it's it's great. It actually really helped inform me as a salesperson formed how I thought my sell it salesperson.

00:00:42:19 - 00:01:02:17

You've had a really interesting career just from like your bio. I mean, I don't know you super well, but just your bio has been super interesting to read through and read some of the stuff you put out online. I actually want to talk about the lead in to Canal a bit, because I think there's some there's some really interesting stuff that probably led you to this point.

00:01:02:19 - 00:01:24:24

So I just want to start this is like kind of a hot take thing. Your experience at Yale. You know, I I've been thinking a lot about university higher education and the current state of it. So would you say that your experience, you would say Yale is overrated or underrated, going to an Ivy League like that? Yeah, I it's I think I think for everyone it's different for sure.

00:01:25:01 - 00:01:47:03

You can go to any school or not go to a school, a higher education institution and find success. You know, I think my, my journey there definitely helped define me. And it's very specific to me. I was recruited, you know, academically, you know, I was strong, but I was also recruited, to play ice hockey, their Division one sport.

00:01:47:03 - 00:02:12:01

Our sophomore year, we actually won the national championship, and I played for two years, got a really bad concussion and actually left for over for a year and a half. And so, you know, again, this is my point is that it's a specific to me journey. And so I had half of my experience defined by, you know, a balance of, intense athletic and competition and then academics.

00:02:12:03 - 00:02:39:09

And then I had the other half, of, of purely academics, but also kind of like identity finding in this very competitive environment that is Yale. And what I would say to, as a pro to immersing yourself and, and like an Ivy League school or any like, environment like that, is that what tends to happen is it's kind of this like it's an environment of extreme competition.

00:02:39:11 - 00:02:59:22

You're surrounded by extremely motivated, high functioning people. And for someone like me who's a natural competitor, like I was a I was an athlete in a, in a physical sport, I actually need that to fuel me. I need to feel like I'm in the arena, and, like, with, and, like and, like, working towards something.

00:02:59:22 - 00:03:22:12

And so that's stress. I've talked to my wife about it. This is who I am. I actually need this. Just feel me. And so for me, it was a wonderful experience. Do you need to go to an Ivy League school or Stanford to find success? Absolutely not. To be honest, for our own recruiting. You know, if anything, I weigh that negatively.

00:03:22:14 - 00:03:46:17

If you came from one of those schools, anyway. That's interesting. It's so interesting. It's like a paradox, that I hear a lot, you know, it's like you, you went through it, but then it. So if you were interviewing yourself, you'd be waiting negatively on that aspect. That's interesting. I was going to say if I were interviewing myself, and, you know, I read my resume and say, this is an entry level job directly out of Yale.

00:03:46:19 - 00:04:14:08

The first thing I would think is, this is an Ivy League person. His GPAs pretty high. Has he experienced adversity in his life? And like, how do I know he's got this unrelenting? Or this person who has this unrelenting desire to be successful? Because I think what you find is a lot of folks who go to these great, strong second thing, schools rely too much on that signal and, actually aren't as motivated and dare I say, entitled.

00:04:14:10 - 00:04:43:12

And so that's like the big thing, especially in a startup, you have to sniff out is the degree of entitlement versus doggedness, because that dodgy lesson, the and the impulse to do is ultimately what creates success in an early stage company. Completely agree. Amen to that. How is the design ethos at Yale? Is that prevalent? Because I know there's a graphic design program which is not super typical amongst the Ivy leagues, and there's some really famous designers that speak at Yale and teach at Yale.

00:04:43:14 - 00:05:03:19

Is that prevalent at all, or is that sort of a sub current? Yeah. So, you know, you said the word ethos, which, I will use to guide this answer. I mean, ethos to me is it's it's baked into the culture. It's in the air. That is something I did not pick up on when I was there. That being said, Yale's a large, it's a large school.

00:05:03:19 - 00:05:28:06

And there even the college subsectors within Yale are very potent. And so I do know that as you spoke of, we have amazing Professor Yale, has amazing professors and extremely talented designers going to and coming from Yale. But I wouldn't quite say it's in the ethos yet since I have since I graduated, there has been a ton of investment and all things building.

00:05:28:06 - 00:05:54:17

So entrepreneurial sciences, I mean, design is a core tenants of building. And so it's definitely trending in the right direction. Cool. Okay. Let's jump ahead. I want to make sure we have plenty of time to talk about Canal. First, I do want to talk about your time at Andreessen Horowitz. And, you know, maybe you could touch on how you even joined, that firm, but also what your day to day was like, just very practically.

00:05:54:19 - 00:06:19:08

And what your biggest takeaways were once you decided to leave. Yeah. So, out of college, I worked for a startup Colombiana, and when I was in college and then even a couple of years or many years after, I'm someone who just didn't know what I wanted to do. On Acorn. I grew up and, you know, I knew enough about what it were like in terms of where I wanted to go with my career, what I strove for.

00:06:19:08 - 00:06:39:16

I had an I had a general sense I wanted to I come from an entrepreneurial family. My father was a.com era founder. He was an entrepreneur in the in the job market space, started a company called Hot Chops and I. And he came home every day mission driven and was just building. And that's the environment I grew up in and I knew that I wanted to work attack.

00:06:39:16 - 00:06:59:14

I wrote my thesis about innovation, economic well-being. I was a sociology major and, I knew I wanted to build. Build what? No idea. The 22 year old, 20 year old. No idea what I like, which vertical or which even which user I care most about. And everything I was doing since graduating was me trying to figure that out.

00:06:59:16 - 00:07:21:14

And so I said I knew I wanted to work in tech and built. So, didn't really have any preference for industry. I wanted to jump into an opportunity to just be a Swiss Army knife, at an early stage company. So I started I started at a company called Miata, which was a data and engagement platform, for predominantly games and mobile like mobile games.

00:07:21:20 - 00:07:42:10

And the idea there was look, lean team seven people in the US, series a like it's going to be chaotic. What a great place to learn just what building a startup looks like. And my job was it was kind of similar to what now there's like a chief of staff. It's like sitting next to the CEO, and the business leaders and just give them leverage.

00:07:42:12 - 00:08:11:08

Like they just need bodies. That's all I want to do is just do a little bit of everything because I didn't know what I wanted to do. And anyway, so, we ended up being acquired by our largest customer, around the time we were raising our series big. And I knew about this about six months before the acquisition, which meant that I knew that I no longer needed to try to drive the business because there was an exit in sight.

00:08:11:10 - 00:08:31:08

And I jumped in opportunities to just attend events, try to learn as much, maybe meet people. And I met someone at a conference, at a gaming conference who thought I'd be a great candidate for an early stage investor, right? Andres Horowitz. And at the time, I was like, I don't want to do that. I want to build on invest.

00:08:31:08 - 00:09:04:14

I rather build and enable builders. And he said, well, what better, place to figure out what you want to do and learn about how to build? Well, that in an environment like Andreessen Horowitz. And so I threw my hat in the ring for a recruiting process. And, someone there saw something in me where they saw this, like, competitiveness and just like, I gave enough signal, for a quick learning curve where they felt like they could really they had a clean slate to, like, mold the investor that they wanted.

00:09:04:16 - 00:09:25:03

And so I was there for four and a half years. I had a wonderful journey. And I'm happy to, speak about it more. So what was the actual day to day like, walk me through almost, like a day to day in the week of your role where were you actually engaged in? What were you being measured against?

00:09:25:03 - 00:09:44:19

Things like that. Yeah. So, I'd say every year was different. I, you know, moved up and, you know, got I got more and more responsibility. By the time I left, I reported into, my general partner, Connie Chan. She's amazing. And, you know, my job was I was a consumer investment partner, and so I focused on I.

00:09:44:24 - 00:10:09:10

So in VC generally as funds folks have, it's kind of like in college you have majors and minors. There is a swing lane or a specialty that, you know, an investor develops that ultimately informs them on how to make decisions for investing, how to actually think through differentiation, a certain category, build thesis, and then pick the investment that ultimately may or may not return to fund.

00:10:09:12 - 00:10:38:09

And, for me, that was consumer networks. And so social apps, which I've written a ton about and then consumer facing marketplaces as well, which I have also I founded the marketplace 100 when I was there. And, I'm obsessed with network effects, for what it's worth. And, and so and so anyway, so that's kind of like how people break up their focuses in terms of what they, you do on a day to day as an investor.

00:10:38:10 - 00:11:02:16

You really your, your job is split up in three categories. And the share your time allocation will differ depending on the deals in the pipeline versus sourcing. And so do you have the ability to, figure out which companies you would like to talk to? And then ultimately, generate meetings and develop relationships with those founders? The second is picking.

00:11:02:16 - 00:11:27:12

So now that you have, you know, have started your research and have interacted with a number of companies, you start to, you know, develop your thesis and what differentiation looks like, who is the best team to attack the problem, and then who's furthest along as well? And so that you can imagine there's a lot as a ton of research, diligence calls on the people, on the market, on the buyers.

00:11:27:14 - 00:11:46:20

And then there's so there's sourcing is picking and then there's closing, which is the thing that really fires up the city about which reason. And this is like where it's like the sales midship, it's where the sales comes in, which is, okay, you could be the best sorcerer and the best picker, but it doesn't matter if the founder doesn't take your money.

00:11:46:22 - 00:12:09:08

And ultimately at a reason, we, you know, the deals that, that fund tends to want to invest in are highly contested deals. Other funds also want to invest in those companies. And a founder is only going to give up so much ownership. And so there is this is true competition and sales playbooks come out. And it's a it's it's great.

00:12:09:08 - 00:12:28:11

It actually really helped inform me as a salesperson and formed how I conduct myself as a salesperson at Canal And so those are the three buckets. It really depends on the time of year. There is some days where I did no sourcing because there were too many deals and diligence. When we're in win deal mode, nothing else matters.

00:12:28:11 - 00:12:55:18

But when that deal. And then there are some times, in the consumer world, you know, there are a couple of, quote unquote droughts, where there wasn't a lot of money being deployed. And so, when that happens, then you spend a lot of time on sourcing and building out theses proactively. Got it. I'm curious, in that sourcing phase, are there things that you are totally turned off by, even to the point of just completely ignoring?

00:12:55:18 - 00:13:11:16

Or are there certain signals on the other end that you're like, you know, I really want to look into this thing. Like, if I'm if I'm a founder and I own a consumer marketplace and I'm like, I want to get in touch with Andreessen Horowitz or I want to get in touch with Bennett. What is the surefire way to do that?

00:13:11:16 - 00:13:35:06

Are you opening everything or are you very selective? Yeah. So everyone is different. I open everything and Andreessen Horowitz really believed in what I call it. Opportunity and innovation can come from anywhere. And so they actually, you know, we had staging meetings where everyone would collect their inbound and we would talk about all of it. And that's very specific to increase.

00:13:35:06 - 00:13:57:16

And I know a number of other folks are funds. Do it. Not everyone, actually most funds don't do it. And cold emails and LinkedIn, unfortunately, are a waste of time. So, and in tracing, I opened everything. You know, I firmly believe in shooting your shot. If you're someone who wants to get in touch with someone, there is no cost.

00:13:57:18 - 00:14:18:06

There's no cost, only benefit. And a cold email or a cold outreach, like, whatever it takes. And that is actually it for someone who's looking. That's a strong signal. Someone is going to do whatever it takes to get in front of someone else. The other thing is, so VCs care a lot about everything's network based as well, founders to other founders.

00:14:18:06 - 00:14:41:02

And they, you know, a fund like Andreessen is very cognizant of where their deals tend to come from. Are they referrers other investors who tend to, send them, send them great deals. And so warm referrals will always go a long way. And that's not specific to be say, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, so remind me you were at Andreessen.

00:14:41:02 - 00:15:11:22

For how long? Over four years. Okay. So in that four year window were there, I'm sure there were ideas that came to mind. Product ideas? Specific user needs that you saw that probably were under met. Were there any, like, starts that didn't take off for you anything before Canal that just didn't pan out? And then, of course, I'm super interested in, like, how long were you sitting on this canal idea?

00:15:11:22 - 00:15:33:22

Was it even fully formed, or did you just cold turkey, quit injuries in and then go canal? Like, what did that look like? Yeah. So remember when I said that I joined the injuries in knowing that I would eventually leave? It was just a matter of one. And I'm someone who, you know, it's tough because I was actually I was doing very well at injuries, and and they treated me really well.

00:15:33:24 - 00:15:56:22

And I loved my colleagues. I got amazing mentorship from folks like Connie Chen, Andrew Chen, Jeff Jordan, you know, folks who really informed Canal, even just what leadership looks like and how I conduct myself as a leader, a canal. And so it was a delightful place about three years. And I started to feel like, well, I'm, I'm on the wrong side of the table.

00:15:56:24 - 00:16:23:24

And it wasn't predicated on having an idea. It was just this feeling. And this is a visceral feeling where, I would interact more and more with founders and just feel like, what am I doing? Right? It's I want to be on their side of the table. My role in the ecosystem is enabling other founders with, who are obsessed on the problems that they're solving.

00:16:24:01 - 00:16:52:11

And this was also a time where as you get promoted more and more, you start to join boards and you start to really work closely with the operators. And that was happening with me as well as I was. I was, observing and joining boards, and that was by far my favorite work. Whether in a board meeting or separate calls where we go deep in their data, and we just crank together for the same goal, like, I, I could do that all day.

00:16:52:15 - 00:17:11:18

VC is a tough job, and they're long hours, but, like, I could do that all day. And so I started to feel this really just this visceral feeling of wrong side of the table. Something needs to change. Like I now have an end in sight. I have an expiration date, you know, or else I'm not going to be happy.

00:17:11:20 - 00:17:29:19

And so that was about three years in. I didn't want to force anything again. I was doing well my fourth year. I, you know, got the award for the highest NPS at injuries and on the investing team. So that was nice, nice and validating. That was purely out of my respect for other founders and like low key wanted to be like that.

00:17:29:21 - 00:17:53:04

Funny how that works. Yeah, it's funny how though it's not a coincidence. Yeah. So about halfway through my my third year, is when I started to really kind of dabble with ideas and I think, you know, so one of the things that as a VC after like very cognizant of is, not exposing yourself to ideas that you ultimately run with.

00:17:53:06 - 00:18:16:20

So, for instance, like, I can't meet a founder who has an idea and then say, I could do it better. That's the worst thing in the world. It's all about trust. And like also what a low integrity move. And you know, and anyway, so you had to be really cognizant of that. And so we actually did have a pretty strong track record of investors leaving Andreessen to become founders.

00:18:17:01 - 00:18:41:10

And generally what would happen is someone would become very well versed in the space and become a specialist in the space. And so for me this was networks, but also Covid. And so all of a sudden behavioral shifts, particularly propensity to buy products online. And I focused 8 to 1 on e-commerce in the future, buying and selling. And when folks tend to leave, it's when they see that.

00:18:41:10 - 00:19:15:04

It's when they build a thesis of what is the right approach to attack this opportunity. How big is the opportunity, and are there any teams that are like, positioned to tackle it? And when it comes to Canal, I found nothing for like the vision that I had in my head, which we'll get to, there was no team and I was like, whoa, this is an opportunity where I'm actually I actually try to not think about it for a month to see, like, if this is me being a having a bias to wanting to start a company versus me actually being obsessed with it.

00:19:15:06 - 00:19:33:10

And, I gave myself space and I just couldn't get the idea for Canal out of my head. This was April of 2020 for a few months in the Covid now, and it got to a point where and during the summer we had a summer break. This is July now. We had a two week break. It's very generous.

00:19:33:12 - 00:19:53:02

It got to the point where I felt like when I returned to it after the break to entry seven, I'm going to be paranoid because I'm the e-commerce person, or I'm spending a lot of time in e-commerce. And the second a founder tells me anything like Canal or the idea for Canal at the time, I can't do it.

00:19:53:02 - 00:20:15:21

And that's when I knew I had to leave. And so, this was the summer, I knew Liam and Claire, my amazing co-founders, through Amanda, already. I knew they actually worked together at the time. Claire, the tanks engineer. And Liam is an amazing. Was an amazing PM. And they actually Liam was Clay's PM at their prior job and they were they built integrations.

00:20:15:23 - 00:20:41:22

They were like a potent duo already building engineers at their company. Jumpstart was named Jumpstart at the time, which is a recruiting marketplace. And, we'll talk about canal, but Canal is is built on top of deep integrations into e-commerce back end. And they were an integration duo who truly who believes in the vision. And so, we started to like, flirt with the idea, work together.

00:20:41:24 - 00:21:00:21

And then Thanksgiving break comes around. They were like, we're in it to win it with you. Let's do it. And then Thanksgiving is when I decided I would leave, told my manager over the holiday break, and then we, incorporated and raised our seed in January of 21. Okay. So there's some stuff I want to unpack there.

00:21:00:21 - 00:21:22:18

First of all, that's a really mature way of starting a company. Starting a business. You know, there's a lot of just piggyback businesses who asked for it. Businesses I really just appreciate as as founder, the founder, I really appreciate your approach of like, let me sit on this bake for a bit, preheat the oven and then make sure this is something I want to actually go.

00:21:22:19 - 00:21:42:24

So that's very cool. Now you talked about the vision for Canal. We might as well just break that ice. I think you have to be honest with you then I know canals value propositions. I understand the product. What I don't know and what I'd love to hear from you and unpack is the the vision you have for the future of commerce.

00:21:43:01 - 00:22:14:17

And I know that that's going to be super interesting. So break it down for me as best so you can. Yeah, absolutely. So it's it's simple. Our vision statement at Canal is we are building the inventory layer for the future of commerce. The inventory layer for the web and so what that what that means is that so our, our, our founding thesis is the need to hold inventory is structurally, it's fundamentally constraining e-commerce as a whole, like the industry size, because you think about what it takes to sell a product online traditionally.

00:22:14:19 - 00:22:37:03

This is anyone selling your products online. You gotta figure out what you want to sell. You need upfront cash. You need cash to procure the products. Actually get them shipped to, whatever location a three PL warehouse would have you. You then have to, ship the products you have to return, deal with returns, and all of that is operational complexities.

00:22:37:03 - 00:23:08:16

It's it's an operational headache that is ultimately keeping the barrier to entry to become a seller very high. And so at Canal, we're like, working doggedly to try to to try to lower the barrier to entry so that anyone who has worked their tail off, to build authority, credibility, in whatever category they exist, and to actually be able to inspire sales for products and ultimately be the seller, they can now do that without having to hold inventory and deal with all the headaches.

00:23:08:18 - 00:23:35:11

And so what you see on the website today is really our first chapter. We are allowing for, amazing, high trusted DTC brands helping to expand their product catalogs in order to sell more to the customers and the reasons why they might do that. They're they're a handful. You know, every brand right now is thinking very critically about their customer acquisition costs coming out of ideas like, you know, iOS 14 updates.

00:23:35:13 - 00:24:05:11

And so one way to deal with rising costs is to actually increase your LTV. And a lot of brands, you know, your, your, your, your customer to your customer value is ultimately capped by the number of products you can sell them and how often. And so for, for stereo like, stereotypical DTC brands are constrained by their finite nature of their catalog, and they need to expand their catalog and sell complementary products to their own in order to increase customer value.

00:24:05:13 - 00:24:28:19

And so by selling more products, you have high rate of ease. You have, higher retention rates. And we've seen lifts that are, there in like the 80% range to just like retention levels for DTC brands, which is amazing. And then some like non-obvious benefits to selling their products. It's just more engagement on your site. The SEO benefits as well, which ultimately your customers.

00:24:28:21 - 00:24:54:13

And so we're really fortunate to be able to work with brands like Fellow and Yumi and, hello, Bello coming up, you know, on the generous, you know, and we're very fortunate to be able to help them. That's where we began. We just launched our our talent commerce product, which again, the the idea is, who is in a position to sell a product and why don't they, why don't they today?

00:24:54:15 - 00:25:19:01

And if the reason is it's just too hard to sell products online, too much like complexity, then like Canal is there for you. And so you think of the creator economy world, which are folks that are to the extent they're monetizing their influence today. It's a lot of affiliate links. You know, that's on average there are seven clicks, that lead to a, checkout and the affiliate flow and every click is leakage and that's money left on the table.

00:25:19:03 - 00:25:38:08

And so what can I do to make up to five more? By actually being the seller and generating your own first party data so that you, so that you know who your best fans are and you could actually, retarget them in the future as well with, with more emails. Okay. So so let's break this down and get very real world.

00:25:38:13 - 00:26:00:20

So let's say I own a bicycle brand and I sell bicycles, online. I'm on Shopify and I say, okay, I'm interested in this canal thing. How do I actually on board and start using canal in the best possible way? If you could give me an example. Yeah. So so say you're a bike brand and it makes sense for you to sell a helmet.

00:26:00:22 - 00:26:29:02

Yeah. Which it probably does. Because of the helmet. You know, so one of those little tire pumps. Yeah. Yeah, it's everything you need. A little a little decals, sticker, maybe a wrist guard if you absolutely need the detail. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So. So first off, I'd say is, we have it, like, we, we have a brand partnership team that, works with, many of our of our of our sellers.

00:26:29:04 - 00:26:49:02

The big thing is, you know, a brand might know that they want to sell a helmet, but they might not necessarily know from whom. And so we really do play an active role in helping curate the best options for them. And then, actually connecting them with their reciprocal brand. Who's going to provide their product and, and deal with the shipment, all of that.

00:26:49:04 - 00:27:13:12

And so for them, they would talk to our team, would give them everything they need on the curation implementation front. And then what they would also do is install our Shopify app. Our Shopify app is how we're able to not just ingest products from other brands who are looking to sell on other on other stores, but also then take that product metadata and push it into your backend.

00:27:13:14 - 00:27:32:14

So your experience as a bike shop on Shopify, well, you'll actually see third party products that are not your own in your own product page for you to sell. However you'd like. All of the fields or the metadata is matched with your own fields. And, and you can do whatever you want with that. You could customize them.

00:27:32:16 - 00:27:54:07

The only thing you can change is the price and the inventory levels. I think one one thing that interested me is, again, if I'm this bicycle shop entrepreneur and I'm selling helmets and decals on the side of my core product, and I see that, you know, the pink helmet is selling at a much higher velocity than anything else.

00:27:54:09 - 00:28:16:23

I could then say, great, you know, that should be the next product I developed. Have you seen that? Is that against some of your principles? Like, do you see this as much more of a collaborative type of thing, or do you, would you say like that is a great, exercise for, for shop owners? Yeah. So I mean, it's it's really just reinforcing our value prop, at the end of the day.

00:28:16:23 - 00:28:38:21

So first off, by partnering with third party brands, what that means is that, you're able to add their inventory within a matter of minutes. And what your, but it also means is that you're not jumping into R&D and production cycles. That take for depending on the product, six, eight, 12, 16 months. So that's one.

00:28:38:23 - 00:28:59:03

Two is like, so what we've, what we've actually seen and what we're one of the things we're most proud of is the word coalition has been thrown around in our ecosystem, which is it truly does feel when a match is made. Brands are partnering together, end of the day, like they're solving for pain points in their own brand lives.

00:28:59:05 - 00:29:22:06

And so this, this bicycle entrepreneur, at the end of the day, wants to increase its customer value. And, you know, there might be a, a reason for that. It could be a weird economy rising. Can you name it? He's solving this problem by partnering with a brand who, because of rising tax, are looking for new profitable distribution channels.

00:29:22:08 - 00:29:47:24

And so the brands do truly feel like they are working together. And it's funny because, you know, when we first started Canal and launched our marketplace, we thought it would feel less personal and that brands would, it would be quicker to, convert a partnership up. But what we're actually seeing and it's so much more meaningful, is brands want to exchange assets.

00:29:47:24 - 00:30:17:16

They want to get on the phone because they really do care about who they do business with. And so in a way, so we actually haven't seen what you just described today of like someone validating demand for a product and then why they do it themselves. Because, of these relationships that they're building with brands. And then to look, it's like, building, storing, you know, your own product, shipping, dealing returns are operational headaches.

00:30:17:16 - 00:30:40:18

And when there's opportunity to avoid it, what we're seeing is that brands are definitely opting into that, for sure. So you mentioned fellow and your case study with seller fellow is kind of a perfect, example of a brand that could benefit, you know, greatly from Canal. And obviously they have I'd like to go beyond the, the case study on your website.

00:30:40:18 - 00:31:04:08

There. I mean, I think it's great. How did you get connected with the fellow team at first on board, then, you know, persuade them to to join the now ecosystem, use the product. And then what are some of the outcomes you saw? And after that first initial set of wins and what you ultimately used to form that case study, like how did they go beyond that at all?

00:31:04:08 - 00:31:27:10

And you know, where they at today with using that. Yeah, absolutely. So I do need to be a little bit careful about when I share on this site, but I'll gladly give you the story of how we know now. So, one of the things you become really good at and VC is research and customer calls. And it's also it's a, it's a product manager skill set as well.

00:31:27:12 - 00:31:51:17

Just being able to talk to customers and really understand their needs and where there's value to be had. And so when we first decided to fully committed to Canal, one of the first things Liam and I did at Beyond, like research I'd already done and customer calls I had already done, is we met about 60 people, like we did 60 customer interviews, and one of them was Jake Miller, our fellow, the CEO.

00:31:51:19 - 00:32:18:05

And, we really got to know kind of what was aspirations for the business, where were the pain points and, you know, if you if you go to our website and see the, in the case study, what are the things we're most proud of are the, the actual numbers that we exhibit this is an increase to repeat customer rate, LTV and then also general just sales were all problems that he specifically outlined.

00:32:18:07 - 00:32:40:02

And I was really like, it's really great to actually solve them and then showcase them to other people. As a, as a stereotypical DTC brand fellow is known for a core set of products, core set A, here are products that make up the majority of their sales, and unfortunately, they make such a good product. They're known for their stag kettle.

00:32:40:04 - 00:33:09:00

A coffee kettle, that you don't need to buy it very often. You know, to the extent that I buy more that one, it's because, you know, my mom's birthday is coming up. Whether it's gifts. And that's really what they see as, like, their attention levels. And so, what they found is that because their repeat purchase rate is so low was so low, every time they launched a new product, they actually had to completely reacquire that customer.

00:33:09:02 - 00:33:39:15

And so tax or just not, it wasn't getting easier. And then you see a world of iOS 14 updates, those traditional channels through which they would acquire customers. We're getting more costly and less efficient. And so they had to figure out how can we actually build stronger touch points with our current set of users and drive engagement, so that they're just more loyal, there's more durability for our brands, and we don't have to reacquire them every time we launch a new kettle, every time we launch a launching a product line.

00:33:39:21 - 00:34:04:17

Since then, they've they've launched so many products, and so just specifically so fellow alone. So this is public. I could share it. You know, they're selling over, they're selling over $1 million of coffee a year. They use coffee as a natural complement to their core product to drive engagement, to their brands. You know, and the, the, the average person who buys coffee is buying a once a month.

00:34:04:17 - 00:34:32:02

They just launched a subscription that is growing like wildfire. And so we've increased their customer repeat customer rate by 64%. Their basket sizes on average are 15% larger with coffee. And all in all, that means an increase. Those who buy coffee, their customer value is increased 50% so far. When we pulled this data, it wasn't a full year end.

00:34:32:04 - 00:34:52:14

And so what they ultimately found is that, look, by not selling more products, they were leaving customer value on the table. And, if they weren't going to sell those products someone else's, these customers were already buying coffee elsewhere, and now they're able to sell the coffee, and those customers are buying this coffee from them. Yeah, dude.

00:34:52:14 - 00:35:14:07

That's powerful. That's awesome. You talked about rising costs, and it certainly in in businesses like this, that's always kind of an ever present issue. But, you know, as we know, the economy and just the the industry is kind of talking about this a lot. And you actually wrote an article on TechCrunch. I'm not a TechCrunch, exclusive member.

00:35:14:07 - 00:35:40:18

So I was gated on the whole article. Yeah. So you could even read your article so that if you didn't have to, like, by the way, it's going to look like this. Yeah. That's hilarious. Well, maybe you could do a favor and talk a little bit about you know, how you see the current state of marketing and marketing expenses and the challenges in the current environment with customer acquisition costs rising?

00:35:40:18 - 00:36:04:18

All of that, you know, what are some takeaways that you have? And, you know, you're advising some of your clients just holistically, what what are you, speaking in their ears? Yeah. So one thing I'd say is that every every brand is different. I think so there's, there's rising costs and then there's at a larger scale, just general macro economic, uncertainty.

00:36:04:20 - 00:36:33:19

Yeah. We just got an update from the fed that interest rates will be rising again, which is not going to create stability. And, you know, in terms of macroeconomic and this is actually what I spoke about, I wrote about the TechCrunch article, whenever there's macroeconomic volatility and you're unsure if customers will be buying your products, cash is the relentless focus and discipline around profitability is what's going to, you know, create longevity for the business.

00:36:33:21 - 00:36:57:24

And, you know, one of the things I advocate for is for founders and executives, you know, to be prepared to make hard decisions. And this is something that's definitely not unique to my perspective. A lot of folks have have mentioned this, but I'll reiterate this as, the number one goal for a brand, when it when when there are rough water waters is not drowning and surviving and understanding.

00:36:57:24 - 00:37:36:21

And he'd be surprised how many brands don't do this understanding what's working and doubling down on that and, cutting everything else out, during volatile times is is definitely like the hard decision that must be made, for the brand really start to feel a shift in their and their demand because of macroeconomic forces. You know, what we find and something that we're working with a lot of brands, working to enable through our platform for a lot of brands are, you know, just like this relentless understanding of even their own data.

00:37:36:23 - 00:37:55:11

That's something that I know a lot of the larger brands have, have definitely developed discipline around, but a lot of, what we consider to be mid-market, these are high growth core brands who are just trying to grow as quickly as possible. You'd be surprised at how many folks don't actually understand your economics as rigorously as they should.

00:37:55:13 - 00:38:21:07

And, you know, the last thing you want is to is to find yourself in a position, when, you know, money is running out and you realize that your customer hasn't been paid for yet after a year or earlier or longer. And so, you know, we're working through that visibility, just our platform alone, you know, to our folks to help our operators who use us are champions just know these problems that they're solving for.

00:38:21:09 - 00:38:44:23

No, dude, it's crazy that you I mean, even look nine figure brands that we talked to really haven't set up their data infrastructure properly. I mean, they have the core fundamentals figured out. But just as far as, like, holistic ingesting, absorbing, reviewing and then actually using data to inform action items, it's like just not they're super interesting.

00:38:45:00 - 00:39:11:18

I'm curious, what are the what size of company is, our canal's biggest, customers. Like, are you servicing 150 million plus, or is it, is it, you know, 50 to 100? What's the sweet spot and what's the largest? And our sweet, in terms of where we're able to drive the most economic value, our brands that are north of 25 million in yearly DTC sales.

00:39:11:20 - 00:39:35:01

We do work with brands that I can't say who because. And you know how they're doing, but north of, you know, 150 million, and DTC sales, we're really, really fortunate to be able to work with them. So on that note, what are some non canal customer e-commerce brands that you're either most excited by as a customer or that you really want to add to Canal.

00:39:35:03 - 00:39:56:15

Yeah. So again like the the the use cases or the or the brand journey is I'm a brand looking to expand my product catalog. And there's opportunity to unlock more customer value through some complementary products. The thing that's copper mine. You know, one of the things I love about fellow is coffee is such a natural extension of their core product.

00:39:56:15 - 00:40:22:21

You know, you need coffee to be able to, to be able to use their core products. It makes complete sense to, to everyone involved, especially, most importantly, the shopper or the consumer. I'd say I dream of working with a brand like Weber, like a grill company. What do you do with every grill you cook meat and the DTC, meat ecosystem is growing very quickly with amazing brands.

00:40:22:23 - 00:40:53:00

You think of Butcherbox as well, and there is no reason why Weber or any, barbecue company shouldn't be selling a butcherbox subscription or partner road subscription or fly. Like I says with Jacobsen, salt is a brand that our network, you know, I mean, anything that, is, is such a natural extension to our core product. We're really is just an intuitive to a, to a consumer, as well as what we dream of that that's really cool.

00:40:53:00 - 00:41:12:11

That makes a lot of sense. I'd love to see that come to fruition. I think that's a and that example is really cool to just with the last few minutes here, I want to pivot and talk about your day to day as a CEO. You know, we've got a lot of CEO, CMO, clients, stakeholders that we talk to on a on a weekly basis.

00:41:12:11 - 00:41:31:23

And I think it's one of those things. It's one of those positions to be in where you're never quite sure, you know, am I doing am I focused on 100% of the right things? So I'm just curious, like there is no right answer. What are what is the day to day for you, like you operate with the most on your leadership team?

00:41:31:23 - 00:41:52:13

Who are you slacking the most? What key business metrics are you looking at on a weekly or monthly basis? Things like that. Like what are you? What are what? What's the real key on that? That's a great question. And every day is different. So you can talk about the trends. It's funny as a CEO when I found this, that I've gotten conflicting invites advice on on where focus.

00:41:52:15 - 00:42:12:22

And, you know, my learning is that it really just depends on who you are and the needs of the business. What is the conflicting advice? Well, startup founders should be in the weeds, because ultimately they have the vision and they are the best to execute in the early days. And I consider us still our early days relative to where we want to be.

00:42:12:24 - 00:42:35:10

You know, the competing advice to that is, hiring an amazing team and getting the hell out of the way. You know, enable your leaders and your doers to execute so that you could focus more on strategy and really pay the path for the company's future. And you know, what you find on a practical level is that the company needs both and that it's not one or the other.

00:42:35:12 - 00:42:58:17

You know, I actually I'm still on sales calls. I actually for the more complicated deals I straight up own, because until like at this point in our journey, you know, like, we feel like I should own it just for the sake of the business. And to me, as an expanding a path for our sales team, let's figure out the playbook and then hand it off.

00:42:58:19 - 00:43:26:15

That's one example. And then at the same time, we one of our strengths as a business has actually been hiring amazing people. We are so fortunate to be able to have hired the team that we, that we've assembled. And, so I am in a great position where I do have a core set of, leaders who manage others, who really just, you know, are able to take on strategy work and then also, you know, really push focus and execution and get out of the weeds themselves, too.

00:43:26:17 - 00:43:47:04

And what that's allowed for me is really just to focus on the future of Canal, but also what is the biggest fire across our business that needs my attention. And I'm kind of like this hybrid of a of a custodian and a fireman is how I see it. And right now in our business, you know, our product is amazing.

00:43:47:04 - 00:44:25:17

Our network is amazing, our customer retention and our increased, core contract value is amazing. And the biggest lever to pull and really just add fuel to the fire is our new brands. It's the sales. We have an amazing pipeline of brands, but we're still constrained there. Because like, it's, it's we work with every brands and it's actually a great place to be when, when there's, more brands and the number of people to service those brands, you know, and so, that's, that informs who I slack the most.

00:44:25:17 - 00:44:44:20

It's our head of sales. I know she likes all my Slack's, you know, we work in concert with each other very closely now. Happy with that partnership. Well, I think that's a natural place to end the convo. I really appreciate all the insights. Super helpful. Congrats on all the success to now. I look forward to working more to get a future.

00:44:44:22 - 00:44:57:04

Thank you so much, Jackson. Thank you for having me. You know, this is this is one.